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Clark Braden (1831- c.1915)
Braden-Kelley Debate
(1st edition: Cincinnatti, 1884)
Part 2 of 7 pages 036-077
  • Title Page   Preface

  • Proposition 1:
    • pp. 003-035   pp. 078-112
    pp. 113-174   pp. 175-219

  • Proposition 2:   pp. 220-301
  • Proposition 3:   pp. 302-381

  • Appendices:   pp. 382-396
    •

    The original book has no proper contents page.   --   Tabulated Links (in lieu of a Contents Page)
    Prop. One Speeches:  1-3   |   4K  4B  5K  5B  6K  6B  7K  7B   |   8-10   |   11-16   |   17-20

    This book will not be fully transcribed until mid-2007.
     

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    MR. KELLEY'S FOURTH SPEECH.
    ______

    GENTLEMEN MODERATORS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: -- By way of reminding you of the fact that sometimes a man gets frightened at his own evil surmisings I call attention to the statement of my friend, "That he was not going to be scared down." This was certainly uncalled for. Who has tried to scare him down? Have I, or has a single person in this audience? Now, I take this as the simple upbraidings of his own conscience. It reminds me of the story of the boy that got terribly scared upon a certain occasion. His hair began to stand up right lively, and the cold chills coursed down his back. Finally he gathered up a little courage and edged up a little toward the object of his fright and after straightening up, he stammered out, "Who's afraid?" It turned out that the boy had only been stuffed with a few ghost stories and was frightened at nothing. And it seems to me that this is the true condition of my opponent. There is no necessity of being afraid here. I hope my friend is not afraid. I can say truly to you that I am not. What is he afraid of? I want him in this discussion to bring the strongest evidence he can, To do his worst, as well as best, Only let him state facts!

    He makes a statement with reference to the prophecy of Jacob in the 49th chapter of Genesis where in blessing Joseph, he tells him his "branches," (daughters), "should run over the wall," and says that men have read it for thousands of years and never thought of applying it as I have in this discussion. Is that an argument against the force of my position? On the contrary it occurs to me to be an argument in favor of it. When men have read it, scanned it, for thousands of years, and no one conceived the idea of applying it to its proper place until it was made known as we claim by the revelation of God, it argues in favor of the divine knowledge. It is something that was not likely to be spontaneous in the heart of man, but let down from heaven as were many other things that I will be able to show you during this discussion. And yet will he deny that the Book of Mormon has given a single new truth to the world? Another thing he has referred to as an argument is the sermons of the "notorious Stephen Burrows," using his language. He seems to have been a faithful student of Burrows. Now, his sermons may be good, as he claims from his or the Disciples' (Campbellites) standpoint of judging; but I will state to this audience fairly and candidly that no such man as he says he was could preach good sermons from the standpoint of the Latter Day Saints, nor the standpoint of the Bible; and they are not good sermons. I invite him to produce the sermons now, and I will examine them before you and show that they are not good.

    Another thing. He said that he could show that the prophecies of the Bible which I have quoted refer as much to the Koran as the Book of Mormon. Why does he not do it then? What is he here for but to show what they apply to? Let him do it. I deny that he can select a single one that has a like or similar application, and demand the proof. When he names one, it will show it does not, nor cannot be made to apply to the Koran as obviously as the Book of Mormon. He has so far failed, or refused, to follow me and notice my arguments, although he is in the negative of the proposition. I shall not be so kind with him, but will both set forth my affirmative proofs, and expose the fallacies in his positions. In his desperation to make out a case against the Book of Mormon he does not hesitate to ignore as applicable to man after the Apostles' time, all that is assuring and comforting to the Christian.

    The beautiful promises, "Seek, and ye shall find," "Knock and it shall be opened unto you," "Ask and it shall be given unto you," Matt. 7:7; "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him," James 2:6; "How much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him," Matt. 7:11; and many other like assuring and comforting promises, are all things of the past with him. Confined to the apostles' age. Jesus says, "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me; and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." Again, "My Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him." John 14:21, 23. But according to my friend's theory, all of these promises are limited to the apostles, and those upon whom they laid their hands. His theory limits pretty much all of the New Testament to the apostolic times; especially does it, all giving assurance that the Christian may have a knowledge of God. Christ said, "I will pray the Father and he shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth." John 14:16, 17. "Where two or three are met together in my name there I am in the midst." But my opponent makes this limited to the olden times. What is the use praying then, if God cannot give, and Jesus cannot be in the midst. Again, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:11-16. This is also limited


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    by the theory of the negative. Yet, it is clear from the texts themselves, that these promises and experiences were, and are, for the doers of the word, the faithful in Christ in every age.

    John said, " I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." Matt. 3:11. And Jesus in keeping with this says, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God." John 3:5. These texts prove that the influence and power of the Spirit was to follow the baptism by water. But my opponent limits the baptism of the Spirit, and holds on to the water. But upon what authority? A vain assumption evidently thought necessary to bolster up his Campbellite theory. His arguments prohibit salvation to the race after the apostolic age. Jesus taught, "Except a man be born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God." Yet, Mr. Braden says, there is no birth or baptism of the Spirit now. There would be more consistency in abandoning both baptisms as they are both taught by the same persons and at the same time. In his madness he not only wars against the claims of the Book of Mormon and the Latter Day Saints, but all Christians who hold to a Christian experience under the divine energies of the Holy Ghost. Every Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian. Methodist, Friend, Independent, or what not, who has testified of tasting the heavenly gift the joy of the Holy Ghost shed abroad in the heart, in any age or time since the Apostles, has witnessed falsely. Their experiences are but vain things and they, deceivers of themselves. There is no Spiritual communion, so Mr. Braden claims, except through the medium of the word. His is but a first step in Atheism. It destroys or removes God out of the world, if not out of the universe. Inspiration is not only confined to the early church, but God, and Christ, and the Holy Ghost, are barred out; limited and confined to the Apostles alone and can no longer move upon the Christian's heart. But thank God, we are assured of better things: Says Paul, "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in the heart." How is the love of God shed abroad in the heart? "By the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." Rom. 5:5. "Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." 2 Cor. 1:22. "And because you are sons. God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba Father." "In whom ye also trusted after that ye heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation, in whom also after that ye believed ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Eph. 1: 13. This was not attained through the medium of the word as my opponent would have you believe, for the Apostle says, verse 13, "After ye heard the word of truth, after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise." The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of promise the same which Jesus said, "When he is come he will testify of me." This promise of the Spirit to burn in the heart of the Christian in fact, was to continue until the redemption of the purchased possession, and is the evidence of the right of possession. But Braden's theory confines all this to the apostles' time and all the experience, and knowledge, that men can have of God now, is through the written word. Jesus says, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned; and these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name they shall cast out devils. They shall speak with new tongues," etc. Mark 16. This message included the entire world of believers. The promise is, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved," and "These signs shall follow them that believe." Wherever the message was to be obeyed, the signs were to follow. Where the signs are limited, the duties en- joined by the message are limited. This proves too much for my opponent's theory and faith, for he professes great faith in the water part of the message. But if he confines the result of obedience to the age of the apostles, he must confine the obligation to obey the ordinance of baptism to that age, and per consequence the duties preceding it, faith and repentance, which are necessary to prepare one to obey the ordinance of baptism. Thus he not only limits the Holy Ghost to the age of the, apostles, but faith, repentance and baptism also. Hence he has God and Christ and the Holy Ghost out of the world, and so far away that neither can commune with Christians, and the essential feature of the gospel itself is confined to the apostolic times and people. But Peter held to a better faith. Said he, " For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." This promise was to be realized when they accepted the gospel message as is shown in verse 38. of Acts, second chapter. "Repent and be baptized every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Nothing is more certain than that the obedient doer of the word was to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost wherever the gospel message zzWHS sent, as is clearly shown by these texts. It is not limited to Pentecost day, nor to that age. Whenever, and wherever, the remission of sins took place in all the world, in every age, "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Hence Paul says, "by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Cor 12:13.


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    This body to which he refers, is the church, the body of Christ, so termed. Those who joined in this relation became "fit temples for the indwelling of the Holy Ghost." If these powers and blessings were limited to the early apostles' time, then the body of Christ, the church of God on earth was limited to that age.

    Paul foreseeing that such a theory would be foisted upon the world in the future from his day. raised a warning voice to the people, declaring, "that in the last days perilous times shall come," by men, "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." The advice that follows this announcement is most striking and cheering: "From such turn away." 2 Tim. 3:5. The apostle Peter also, as if on purpose to put the question beyond caviling, and at rest, says, "The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." To all who are called to repentance and salvation, and not to miraculous power, as has been stated; but called to Christ Jesus. God thus calls all men in every age. "In every nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted with him." "Come unto me, all ye ends of the earth," says God, "And be ye saved." But my opponent says, Christ limited Joel's prophecy made to all flesh, to Pentecost day, and that Peter meant when he said, "Even as many as the Lord our God should call," "That all should receive the Holy Ghost on whom the apostles laid their hands."

    This is evidently a subterfuge, and false rendering, for there is not a statement in the Bible anywhere to the effect that none were to receive the Holy Ghost but those on whom the apostles should lay their hands. This is gotten up out of whole cloth and added to the word of God in order to support a weak theory. But my opponent seems to be driven to the last ditch here. He assumes to turn Jesus against his prophets. Bays he, "Christ limits Joel's prophecy to those on whom the apostles should lay their hands." Why does he want Joel limited? Ah I Joel speaks too loud for his theory. Let me read it: "And it shall come to pass afterward." (after the time of the re-gathering of Israel when they shall never again be ashamed), "That I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants, and upon the handmaids in those days I will pour out my Spirit. And I will show wonders in the heavens and the earth, blood and fire, and pillars of smoke." Joel 2:28-30. When shall this be? In the "last days," when God shall have set his hand a second time to gather his people. "When Jacob's (Israel's) face shall no longer wax pale;" "afterwards." All the prophets agree as to the time Not on Pentecost day; nor at the time when the apostles laid on hands during their ministry. Not on a few on Pentecost day, and those upon whom the apostles should lay their hands; but "upon all flesh." In the period of the world's history when God should "show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood and fire and pillars of smoke." When, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood before the great and notable day of the Lord comes." This prophecy was not fulfilled on Pentecost day. Nor does the apostle so state. He says, referring to the Holy Ghost that had then rested upon and imbued the disciples, "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel," the Spirit that Joel referred to which should be poured out in the last days, by which men should see visions, dream dreams and prophesy. Not the accomplishment of what Joel said would take place, but the presence of the Spirit the agency by which it would be accomplished. Joel prophesied of certain things to take place in the "last days." My opponent's position is that Christ corrected him and says, no prophesying in the "last days;" this is to be confined to Pentecost and those on whom the apostles shall lay their hands. Who is right? Joel or my opponent? He gays again, that no one received the Holy Ghost save under the apostles' hands. But Ananias, who was not an apostle, laid his hands upon Saul that he "might receive the Holy Ghost," and be healed. This shows that the authority to lay on hands for the healing of the sick and the bestowing of the Spirit, was vested in the same class of officers. Jesus says, "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." Mark 16. James also tells us who shall lay hands on the sick, showing the practice under the Savior's instruction: "Is there any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church, "&c. James 5: 14. Hence, Paul addresses Timothy, "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." 1 Tim. 4: 14. Here the presbytery, body of elders, officiated in laying hands upon Timothy, and a gift was manifest by prophecy through the ordinance. But the negative in his ramblings goes from bad to worse. He says that the Christian Institution under Christ and the apostles was a little boy, playing with toys, compared with the excellency, perfection, and power that followed after. How wonderful! Then they had apostles, prophets, the gift of the Holy Ghost, communion with God, and the visitation of angels, the healing of the sick and the love of God shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost which they received; yet he stands before you and claims that this is nothing to be compared with the condition of the church that followed in after ages and is now ex ant almost universally, and from which all of this heavenly clothing and adornment has been stripped, as the woman going into the wilderness was shorn of her beauty and heavenly power.

    One is inclined to think he is joking here, rather than talking in earnest; the absurdity is so palpable. The Church of


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    Christ was to be "a habitation of God through the Spirit." This new theory leads to the conclusion that the world is better off and religion more excellent not to have God in either. When God talks with men. and the Holy Ghost fills their souls, and they have the testimony of Jesus and certainty in religion, it is a dark and trying time; "a boy with his toys;" but when neither God nor Christ, nor the Holy Ghost, nor the prophets nor apostles are known in the church, or in the world; and division, and discord and contention, distraction and uncertainty everywhere reigns, the full grown man appears, with all his captivating influences and enticing graces. The gifts having passed away, he says, we have love, joy, peace, etc. But did not they have all this and God, and Christ besides in the "toy day," that he refers to? To support this hallucination he refers to 1 Cor. 13, and endeavors to show that there is a "more excellent way," than to have communion with God, through the Holy Spirit, and the realization of the gifts in the church. "Charity never faileth." Right; but it is found in and enjoyed most by those exercising the gifts of the gospel. Charity is love, the pure love of God. It is for the saints here, and in the future world, when they shall reign with God. "But whether there be prophecies they shall fail; whether there be tongues they shall cease; whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away." When shall these things cease? My opponent says, in the age of the apostles, i. e., when the apostles died and there was no one to lay on hands; and thus from sheer necessity. But this proves too much for him. If it was because the apostles died, it could not have been because, "that which is perfect is come;" unless the killing of the apostles brought perfection. Knowledge, prophecies, and tongues are classed together, and if he takes it that these are to cease without reference to the "part" exercise of them as explained by the apostle himself, all are mustered out together, and become things of the past at the same time. It would scarcely do for me to tell such a towering light as my opponent; that knowledge ceased in the apostolic age; that was the age of boys, the "toy age." But his theory forces him to do so. If it is said that this refers to miraculous knowledge, I ask what kind is that? Certainly it does not come under that classed as learning "erudition, scholarship. &c. Nor "cognition, notice," &c. It must be then of "apprehension, comprehension, understanding, discernment, judgment." Will he take the position that this kind of knowledge has ceased from the church? No wonder things looked dark to Mr. Wesley. Let us permit the apostle to be his own* interpreter here. Verses 9 and 10, " For we know in part, and prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." What shall be done away? Doing in part. Knowledge in part prophesying in part; speaking in languagesonly in part. When shall it be done away? Answer: "When that which is perfect is come:" and this is when part prophesying and knowing in part will cease. My opponent says, Paul is contrasting two states of the church: One under the spiritual gifts, the other under a "perfected" state without spiritual gifts, or communion with God except as may be received through the written word: that is from reading the Bible. This is another of his fallacies. Paul is contrasting the state of the church and saints here with the condition that is to be attained in the future world, at the coming of Jesus the second time. "Now, (in this life this side of a time of perfection,) I see through a glass darkly; but then shall I know, even as I am known." When this perfect time shall come then Paul will know as he is known; until that time he sees through a glass darkly walking by the light of prophesying in part, and knowing only in part. There is nothing more clear, than if Paul with his spiritual vision, knowledge and prophecy, could know only in part, there has been no state of the church since his day when man attained to a more perfect knowledge And more especially must this be conceded by my opponent, when he and his Campbellite Church, assumes that all that men can know of God, and religion now, is by reading the Bible written in part by Paul himself, and wholly, so far as its divinity is concerned, when men were blest with the spiritual gifts and had communion with God. The facts are these: The light of God only comes to earth in part. The Saints of old knew in part and prophesied in part; but they looked forward to the future when the knowledge in part should be a thing of the past, and they would know as they were known. My opponent says, this was after the apostles passed away and the church became a full-grown man. But who can believe him when he further says that the Christians, or the world, knows more of duty and the light of heaven, and are in a higher, more advanced and perfect state than when the spiritual gifts, were extant and there was communion with God? The gifts were to continue until the day of perfect knowledge should come. "The day of Christ." 2 Thess. 2:2. Paul says in the Ephesian letter, fourth chapter -- "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets and some, evangelists; and some pastors and teachers." What for? "For the perfecting of the Saints the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ," or the church. How long was this inspired ministry to continue? The apostle answers in the next sentence. "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the zzstatum of the fulness of Christ." And all this for the purpose: --

    "That we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up unto him in all things, which is .the head, even Christ. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth. according to the


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    "effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in "in love." 11 to 16 verses.

    This scripture confirms the opinion that the apostles and prophets were designed to continue in the church, that the people might be "no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine."

    But Mr. Braden reverses it, and says the apostles and gifts ceased that we might be no more children, but full grown men. That was "the children or toy day" of the church. However the apostle further tells us, that they were to continue till we all come to, "the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Again, "God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, govern- ments, diversities of tongues," 1 Cor. 12:28. "God has set the members every one in the body as it hath pleased him." This body in which he placed thes members is his church; and he placed them in the body, the church, to edify the same and to continue therein, until "we all come to the knowledge of the Son of God;" but now we are gravely told that they are not necessary or essential to the proper growth ot the body, and that they are not to continue "till we come to the knowledge of the Son of God." But since it is by this same Holy Spirit that was manifest on Pentecost day, and by which the signs followed the believer, and which God gave by gift to the ministry, and poured out upon all the believers, that we may at all attain to the knowledge of Christ, will he now be so kind as to tell us whether he expects by banishing the means of knowledge, to have the people become enlightened? "No man can say that Jesus is the Lord." (come to the knowledge of him), "but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Cor. 12:3.

    He says again, the "Mormons baptize for miraculous gifts." But he also told you, they got their baptism through a Campbellite preacher, Sidney Rigdon. Do THEY baptize for miraculous gifts? The Saints do not now, nor never did baptize for miraculous gifts. That is out of whole cloth.

    They baptize "for the remission of sins," and then say as the apostles taught, that the obedient doer or' the word is entitled to, the Holy Ghost by reason of the "promise."

    Again, he claims that, the Book of Mormon is an addition to the Bible. This is in- correct. The Book of Mormon stands alone, as a work or as a revelation from Deity and is complete of itself; as the Bible 'stands alone and is complete, (so far as the book is concerned and a record of God's will as revealed upon the Eastern continent), so is the Book of Mormon of a like history and of that same will, as revealed, upon the Wes- tern continent. The Book of M i:mon is? in no true sense an addition to the Bible: no such claim is, or has ever been, made for it, by the book itself, or its friends. But it confirms the Bible in its testimony, and this is answer enough if we had no other as to the good of the work. The Bible is a record of the Jews and their religion. The Book of Mormon is a record of the people who came to and lived upon the Western continent and their religion. It is not true as asserted, that the Latter Day Saints hold the revelations in the Book of Mormon in higher veneration than they do the revelations of the Bible With them a revelation from God, given to the world in Palestine, is just as worthy of consideration and respect, as one given in America; and one from a similar source in America, just as good as one given in Palestine. Neither is age a consequence as to the truth or applicability of it. God over all is rich, and none can limit His power of giving and revealing. If a church that denies to its members the light and gift of the Holy Spirit, of communion with God, through the Comforter, and an approach to the life of the church of the First Born, and Jesus the Mediator, is not a Jack o'lantern light to the world, then there is no faint and dim glimmering anywhere. Now I wish to refer hurriedly to what he stated last evening by way of an illustration, using the American government, or the compact of the Constitution and the framers, in a comparison, to the apostles and their work, or to those whom he says gave us the Bible. The trouble with his illustration is, that it is not a parallel case as used by him. The framers of the American Constitution were selected by the American people, and authorized by them to meet and in their own wisdom frame a constitution which should, if ratified, be the governing or fundamental law. In the word of God, as committed to the world, the apostles are not the framers, or makers, neither the ones to ratify as well as devise or institute. They could approve or reject as they chose, but this action could not affect the law, only themselves, as witness the act of Judas. They were the means simply of communicating that knowledge to the world that was framed and devised by Deity himself. And when my opponent seeks by his illustration to reason apostles out of the world, he makes the blunder of placing the apostles in the position occupied by Deity himself, to the New Testament, and his illustration legitimately, instead of showing that apostles were to cease, puts God out of the Universe and out of the church, instead of the apostles. This is why I object to his theory. It is but on a par with his other argument, wherein ho has sought to shut the Holy Ghost, the lifo and power of the gospel out of the church. God gave the covenant or constitution ot the 'Christian Church, and it was not the work of the apostles. The apostles were the means of teaching this constitution to the world; "ambassadors" to publish the glad news. The publication of the constitution of the United States, was not by the fram era, but by means of another's agency, tho press, and public, criers selected for that purpose. The framers of the constitution so far as their work was concerned, would


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    bear a likeness to Deity, who framed and gave the gospel law. Says Jesus in his delivery of the law; "The Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49. The apostles are, in the comparison, in fact but the publishers, ambassadors, preachers. For God to give direction how he would have these laws carried out, would not necessarily either, be making "new constitution every day;" any more than he was making new constitution every day in the time of Paul and John. Who will say that because we have a constitution or first basis in our government, we shall have no more laws. The only restriction is, that the laws shall not conflict with the constitution.

    The next objection I shall take up and examine, is that profound and doubtless scholarly argument, based upon the miraculous in the creation of the world. That since God created the earth by miraculous power, therefore he says, I would have him continue to keep a miracle going all the time, in order that we might have miraculous things or new animals and plants. But he forgets that when God created the earth by miraculous power, if he wishes to call it miraculous, he at the same time established in the same miraculous manner, for aught my opponent can tell, a law by which those things which were created, that he calls miraculous, were to be reproduced. And we have the miraculous plants aud animals now' by virtue of that law. Just the same as he ordained in the first age of Christianity by the law of the Holy Spirit that apostles should continue if men kept the faith, and if they kept not the faith, then they should not continue; and if we have not the fruits by the ordination of the law of the Holy Spirit, it is because the law has not been kept, for God has not changed.

    Will my opponent now stop to tell us whether the law by which the natural creation is now continued is not the same by which God originally wrought when it first germinated? When did Deity change, or at what time did the new law take the place of the old? Make the comparison, and follow it to its conclusion and you will see that instead of supporting his theory it destroys it. God in the creation of the world brought forth certain things, and ordained a means by which they should continue and they continue as at the first by that means, and as the law provided, to the just and unjust alike. In the establishment of his church he did many things which showed the proper fruits of his law, by means of the Holy Spirit. He ordained that they should continue by means of the same agency and power, to the, believer, the doer of the word, for this law was limited to such, and not as the other, made alike to the just and the unjust. Do they continue? Has God changed? The law governing should as in the order of creation cause the same effect, and bring to the believer, knowledge, wisdom, faith, prophecies, tongues and healings. These are the legitimate fruits of the law of the Holy Spirit to the believer. But my opponent says no. Why? The simple reason is his people do not have the fruits, and the application will show that they are not " doers of the word."

    Now I call your attention to the real import of the story he related, which certainly displayed his ingenuity in taking an economical way of meeting my arguments. I have several times called your attention to the fact that he was not debating properly this question, and that he had abandoned any defense, so far as meeting my arguments is concerned; and now, he comes in and admits it in his story of the boy, that he says was only waiting for something sufficient to roll up so that he could have something to kick at. He is waiting for my arguments to roll up.

    This reminds me of another boy. He saw an object in the path and at first sight he concluded he would kick it out. As he neared it, the object looked a little firmer than at first, but he thought he would kick at it any way. Finally he drew quite close and the object looked as if it was bundled up so tightly, that if he kicked he might get his toes hurt, and so he did not kick at all; and this seems to me to be the true reason why he has not foot-balled my argument.

    (Laughter and applause.) (Time expired.)




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    42                     THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                      


    MR. BRADEN'S FOURTH SPEECH.
    GENTLEMEN MODERATORS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: -- Mrs. Matilda Spaulding, Solomon Spaulding's wife testifies, after stating that Mr. Spaulding was very much interested in the antiquities found around Conneaut:

    "Solomon Spaulding conceived the idea of giving a historical sketch of the long lost race that produced these antiquities. Their extreme antiquity lead him to write in the most ancient style, and as the Old Testament was the oldest book in the world, he imitated its style, as nearly as possible. As he progressed in his narrative, the neighbors would come in from time to time to hear portions read, and a great interest in the work was excited among them. It claimed to have been written by one of the lost nation, and to have been recovered from the earth. The neighbors would often ask how Mr. Spaulding progressed in deciphering the manuscript, and when he had sufficient portion prepared, he would inform them, and they would assemble to hear it read. He was enabled from his acquaintance with the classics and ancient history to introduce many singular names, which were particularly noticed by the people, and could be easily recognized by them."

    Miss Martha Spaulding, now Mrs. Kinstry, Spaulding's daughter testifies: "My Father read the manuscript I had seen him writing to the neighbors and to a clergyman a friend of his who came to visit him. Some of the names he mentioned while reading to the people I have never forgotten. They are as fresh in my memory as though I had heard them but yesterday. They are Mormon, Moroni, Lamanite and Nephi, etc., etc."

    Joseph Miller of Amity, Pa., who was intimate with Spaulding while he lived in Amity, nursed him in his last illness, and heard him read much from his manuscript, says:

    "Mr. Spaulding seemed to take great delight in reading from his manuscript written on foolscap. I heard him read most if not all of it, and had frequent conversations with him about it. Some time ago I heard most of the Book of Mormon read. On hearing read the account of the battle between the Amilicites (Book of Alma, chapter II), in which the soldiers of one army placed a red mark on their foreheads, to distinguish them from their enemies, it seemed to reproduce in my mind not only the narrative but the very words, as they had been impressed on my mind by reading Spaulding's manuscript."

    Ruddick McKee of Washington D. C. testifies:

    "I was a boarder at Spaulding's tavern in Amity, Pa., in the fall of 1814. I recollect, quite well, Mr. Spaulding spending much time in writing on sheets of paper torn out of an old book, what purported to be a veritable history of the nations or tribes that inhabited Canaan. He called it 'Lost Manuscript' or some such name. I was struck with the minuteness of his details and the apparent sincerity and truthfulness of the author. I have an indistinct recollection of the passage referred to by Mr. Miller, about the Amilcites making a cross with red paint in their foreheads to distinguish them from their enemies in the confusion of battle."

    Mr. Abner Jackson of Canton Ohio who heard Spaulding read the MS. to his father in Conneaut, just before his removal to Pittsburg, testifies:     		"Spaulding frequently read his MS. to the neighbors and commented on it as he progressed. He wrote it in Bible style. 'And it came to pass' occurred so often that some called him 'Old come to pass.' The names, Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, Nephite, Laman, Lamanite, etc. were in it. The closing scene was at Cumorah, where all the righteous were slain."

    We propose now to introduce Sidney Rigdon himself. Rev. John Winter, M.D. was teaching school in Pittsburgh, and was a member of the First Baptist church when Rigdon was its pastor and was intimate with Rigdon. He testifies that

    "In 1822 or 3 Rigdon took out of his desk in his study a large MS, stating that it was a Bible romance purporting to be a history of the American Indians. That it was written by one Spaulding, a Presbyterian preacher whose health had failed and who had taken it to the printers to see if it would pay to publish it. And that he (Rigdon) had borrowed it from the printer as a curiousity."

    James Jeffries, an old and highly respected citizen of Churchville, Hartford Co., Maryland, testifies, in a statement he dictated to Rev. Calvin D. Wilson, Jan. 20th, 1884, in the presence of his wife and J. M. Finney, MD; and attested by Dr. Finney, Rev. Wilson and Mrs. James Jeffries:

    "Forty years ago I was in business in St. Louis. The Mormons then had their temple in Nauvoo Illinois. I had business transactions with them. I knew Sidney Rigdon. He acted as general manager of the business of the Mormons (with me). Rigdon told me several times in his conversation with me, that there was in the printing office with which he was connected in Ohio, a MS of the Rev. Spaulding, tracing the origin of the Indians from the lost tribes of Israel. This MS was in the office several years. He was familiar with it. Spaulding wanted it published but had not the means to pay for printing. He (Rigdon) and Joe Smith used to look over the MS and read it on Sundays, Rigdon said Smith took the MS and said 'I'll print it,' and went off to Palmyra New York."

    "Forty years ago" would be the fall of 1844, just after Rigdon had been driven out of Nauvoo. The Times and Seasons assailed him bitterly that fall and winter, for exposing Mormonism. On his way from Nauvoo to Pittsburg, he called on his old acquaintance, Mr. Jeffries, in St. Louis, and, in his anger at the Mormons, he let out the secrets of Mormonism, just as he told the Mormons he would, if they did not make him their leader.

    George Clark, son of Jerome Clark of Hartwicke, N.Y., testifies that Mrs. Davidson left the trunk containing her first husband's MSs. at his fathers, before she went to Munson Mass., to live with her daughter. He says:

    "Shortly before Hurlbut got the MS. from fathers, during a visit to fathers, Mrs. Davidson gave to my wife to read a MS. written by her husband, Spaulding: remarking as she handed her the MS.: 'The Mormon Bible is almost a literal copy of this MS'"

    It was this MS. Hurlbut obtained from Jerome Clark, and which he never delivered to Howe. He retained it and gave to Howe a few leaves, the beginning of an entirely different MS.

    Scores of witnesses who would have corroborated the above could have found




                        THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                     43

    where the Book of Mormon appeared, but these are enough certainly.

    We wish now to call the attention of the reader to these facts.  I. We have proved by sixteen witnesses of the highest character, one Solomon Spaulding's brother, another his sister-in-law, another his wife, another his daughter, another his business partner, another one who was an inmate of his family for many months, another one with whom Spaulding boarded for months, and the others intimate acquaintances, that between the years 1809 and 1816 Solomon Spaulding spent much of his time in preparing manuscripts for a book he intended to publish called the "Manuscript Found."  II. That from reading it and hearing him read it they became more or less familiar with the contents of his manuscript.  III. Their description of his manuscript is as accurate an outline of the historic portion of the Nephite part of the Book of Mormon, in the plot of the story, the starting point of the history, its leading incidents, journies, wars, etc., the names of the principal characters, as any average Mormon can give.  IV. They mention only the Nephite portion of the book of Mormon, with on exception, which we will soon give.  V. They all declare that there was no religious matter in his manuscript.  VI. Oliver Smith testifies that Spaulding told him just before going to Pittsburg, that he would prepare the manuscript for press while there, living a retired life for that purpose.  VII. J. N. Miller testifies, that in explaining his book to him, Spaulding told him that he landed the people at the Isthmus of Darien which he called Zarahemla.

    From all these facts we gather these conclusions. Spaulding wrote, at first, only the historic part of the Nephite portion of the Book of Mormon. This was his second manuscript which we will call manuscript No. II, or Mormon Manuscript No. I. It was this small manuscript that Mrs. Martha Spaulding, his daughter, saw in the trunk at W. H. Sabin's, her uncle's, in Onadago Valley, N.Y. about the year 1823. From the amount of writing Spaulding did during the seven years, and from Miller's description, it is evident that he prepared a more complete manuscript, adding the Zarahemla emigration. This we will call manuscript No. III, Mormon manuscript No. 2. In 1812 Spaulding moved to Pittsburg, for the purpose of publishing his book, intending, as he told Oliver Smith, to lead a retired life and rewrite it for the press. He showed it, his daughter testifies, to Mr. Patterson, a publisher in Pittsburg, who told him to rewrite it for the press and he would publish it. He did so and added the Jaredite emigration. Mrs. Spaulding, his wife, and Miss Spaulding, his daughter, testify that he sent the manuscript to Patterson's publishing house. Mr. Miller, Mr. McKee and Dr. Dodd of Amity, Pa., testify that Spaulding told them be had done so. In 1814 Spaulding, then in very poor health, went to Amity, Washington Co., Pa. His wife kept tavern     		and supported the family. Spaulding continued to write on his manuscript and read it to all who would listen to him until his death Oct. 20th, 1816.

    His wife and daughter put his manuscript and papers that they found into a trunk, and took it with them to the residence of a brother of Mrs. Spaulding, W. H. Sabin, Onandago Valley, Onandago County, N.Y. In 1820 Mrs. Spaulding went to Pomfret Conn. Sometime afterwards she married a Mr. Davison of Hartwicke, Otsego County, N.Y. and went there to live. She left her daughter, Miss Martha Spaulding, with her uncle, Mr. Sabin, and left the trunk containing the manuscripts in her care. Miss Spaulding testifies that she read one of the manuscripts, a small one, either Spaulding's first draft of the story, or his Mormon manuscript No. 1 -- the one he wrote in 1809-10. She also testifies that while she was at her uncle's Joseph Smith worked as [a] teamster for her uncle, and learned of the existence of the manuscript. Impostor Joe places his first vision concerning the plates, Sept. 1823. As this is his way of dressing up his first knowledge of the manuscript, he worked for Sabin in September 1823 and learned of the existence of the manuscript then. Sometime after her moving to Hartwicke, and after Sept. 1823, Mrs. Davidson sent for the trunk and it was sent from Onandago Valley, to the house of Mr. Davidson in Hartwicke. In 1828 Miss Martha Spaulding married Dr. McKinstry and went to Munson Mass. to live. In 1830 Mrs. Davidson left Hartwicke and went to Munson to live with her daughter, Mrs. McKinstry. She left the trunk containing the manuscript and papers -- that is all she and her daughter found after Spaulding's death, in care of her brother-in-law, Jerome Clark, in Hartwicke. Here it stayed until it was opened by Philastus Hurlbut and Jerome Clark in 1834. Hurlbut had visited Mrs. Davidson and Mrs. McKinstry in Munson, and obtained an order from them authorizing him to open the trunk, and examine the contents. . .

    We are ready now to introduce the person who was instrumental in giving to the world the "Book of Mormon." Sidney Rigdon was born near the village of Library in St. Clair township, Allegany county, Pa., February 19, 1793. He lived on the farm of his father until the death of the latter in 1810; when Sidney was 17 years old. All the education he obtained he got in a log school-house near his home. After his father's death he still made his home at his mother's, pretending to work on the farm and to farm the land part of the time, but was, his neighbors say, too lazy or too proud to work. A dispute has arisen over the question whether he was in Pittsburg before he went there in 1822, to take charge of the first Baptist church. His friends assert that he did not live in Pittsburg till that time, A dispute arises over the question whether he learned the printer's art in early life. Also whether he worked in the office of Patterson, when Spaulding's manuscript




    44                     THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                      

    was taken there to be published. His friends deny this, and persons employed in Patterson's office before and after that time, say they remember no such employee of the office, and Rigdon denied it most emphatically. Mr. Patterson remembers nothing of him. On the other hand Mrs. Davidson, Spaulding's wife, declares positively that he was connected with the office. Mr. Miller of Amity, Mr. McKee, and Dr. Dodd testify that Mr. Spaulding so informed them. There must have been some foundation for such positive impressions on the part of Mr. and Mrs. Spaulding, and many others.

    I think Mrs. Eichbaum who was clerk in the post office, in Pittsburg, from 1812 to 1816, gives the key to the matter. A young man by the name of Lambdin was in Mr. Patterson's employ and became his partner in 1818. She states that Rigdon and Lambdin were very intimate and that Mr. Engle [sic] foreman of Patterson's printing office complained that Rigdon was loafing around the office all the time; that Rigdon was working in a tannery at the time. The explanation then is that Rigdon was intimate with Lambdin one of the leading employees of Patterson, while he was working in a tannery in Pittsburg, and from this intimacy, persons supposed that he was in Patterson's employ; especially when he was around the office so much. Rigdon was then a young man, noted for his gift of gab, and fondness for discussion, especially on religious topics. We are now ready to prove that Rigdon came into contact with the Spaulding manuscript. Joseph Miller of Amity, Pa., who took care of Spaulding in his last illness, testifies: "My recollection is that Spaulding left a transcript of the manuscript with Patterson for publication. The publication was delayed until Spaulding could write a preface. In the mean time the manuscript was spirited away, and could not be found. Spaulding told me that Sidney Rigdon had taken it or was suspected of taking it. I recollect distinctly that Rigdon's name was mentioned in connection with it." Mr. McKee says that Rigdon was mentioned to him by Spaulding as the employee of Patterson. Dr. Dodd who took care of Spaulding in his last illness declared that Spaulding's manuscript had been transformed into the Book of Mormon, and that Rigdon was the one who did it. He made this statement years before Howe's book appeared, the first public statement of such a theory. He did it on account of what he had heard of the Spaulding manuscript, and what Spaulding had told him. Mrs. Spaulding positively declares that Rigdon was connected with Patterson's office, when the manuscript was there, and that he copied it. That the manuscript was a subject of much curiosity and interest in the office. That it was well known that he had a copy of it.

    We can now collate the evidence. Rigdon was intimate with Lambdin a prominent employee in the office. He loafed     		about the office so much that Mr. Engle the foreman complained of it. His fondness for religious discussion and love of the strange and marvelous, caused him to take a deep interest in the Spaulding manuscript. It was just what would interest such a cast of mind as his. The manuscript was missed. He was blamed with spiriting it away. Mrs. Spaulding thinks he copied it. She, in the course of her husband's last illness did not learn all the facts, or did not remember clearly. She was mistaken in regard to his copying it and that it was returned, as Miller, McKee and Dr. Dodd's statements, in regard to Spaulding's own statements show. We have now traced the manuscript that Spaulding prepared for publication into Rigdon's hands. The statement of his friends that he staid on the farm till he went to Pittsburg, in 1822, they contradict themselves. It does not harmonize with Rigdon's character. Mrs. Eichbaum's statement is confirmed by the fact that Rigdon went to work in a tannery when he quit preaching in 1824. He had learned the trade in 1812 to 1816. That Rigdon was in Pittsburg, when Spaulding's manuscript was in Patterson's office, learning the tanner's trade. He was intimate with Lambdin, an employee of Patterson. He was about the office so much that Engles complained that he was always hanging about. He was just such a person as would be excited over Spaulding's manuscript. He took great interest in it. That was what made him hang around the office. The manuscript was stolen and Spaulding said that Rigdon was suspected of taking it.

    Rigdon joined the Baptist church on Piney Fork of Peters creek May 31, 1817. He studied theology during the years 1818-19 with a Mr. Clark a Baptist Preacher of Beaver county, Pa. He was licensed to preach by the Connequessing Baptist church in 1819. He went to Warren, Trumbull County, Ohio, where his uncle was a prominent member of the Baptist church and joined that church March 4th, 1820. He was ordained to preach as a regular Baptist preacher by that church, April 1st, 1820. He preached for that church and other churches in the vicinity during the years 1820 and 21. He married Phebe Brooks in Warren in 1820. In January 1822 he moved to Pittsburg and was made pastor of the First Baptist church, Jan. 28th, 1822. He embraced many of the teachings of Campbell and Scott. His church and Scott's often met together in worship. He was arraigned for such doctrinal errors and excluded Oct. 11, 1823. He preached for his adherents in the courthouse till the summer of 1824. Then for two years did no regular preaching. He says he studied the Bible and worked in a tannery.

    We will now prove that he had the Spaulding manuscript in his possession at this time. Rev. John Winter M. D. who was a member of Rigdon's congregation when he was pastor or the First Baptist church, and very intimate with him testifies; that Rigdon in his presence in his




                        THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                     45

    house took out of a desk a manuscript and remarked that a "Presbyterian minister Spaulding whose health had failed brought this to a printer to see if it would pay to publish it. It is a romance of the Bible -- and he got it from the printer to read as a curiosity." Here we have clear proof that Rigdon had Spaulding's manuscript in his possession in 1823. In the winter of 1826 Rigdon moved to Bainbridge, Geauga, county Ohio. Soon after he was visited by his niece now Mrs. A. Dunlap of Warren, Ohio. She testifies:

    "That in her presence her uncle went to his bedroom and took from a trunk which he kept locked a certain manuscript and came back, seated himself by the fire and began to read. His wife came into the room and exclaimed, 'What, you are studying that thing again? I mean to burn that paper.' Rigdon replied, 'No, indeed, you will not. This will be a great thing some day!' When he was reading this manuscript he was so completely occupied that he seemed entirely unconscious of anything around him."

    We have now proved that Rigdon had the Spaulding manuscript in his possession, and that he expected to make some great thing out of it and spent much time over it.

    In June 1826 Rigdon was invited to preach the funeral sermon of Warner Goodall of Mentor Ohio, and so pleased the congregation that they chose him their preacher and he became a Disciple preacher. He was now 33 years old. He had barely what was a common school education of those days, and was never a student or reader, except of the visionary and mysterious. He had a wonderful command of language, an extravagant imagination and a marvelous power of word painting. He excelled in declamation and in a kind of pulpit power that arouses revival excitement. He never was regarded as a reasoner, or a man of profound thought. He was relied on as a revivalist rather than as a regular preacher. His favorite theme was the millennium, on which he was fond of declaiming, and entertained the ideas now found in the Book of Mormon. He was always talking of some great time coming, some great thing going to happen. He brought with him many of his Baptist ideas, and never accepted all Disciple teaching. His power in revivals and his love of revival excitement inclined him to the idea then popular in all churches, except the Disciples, of direct and immediate or miraculous power of the Holy Ghost. His extravagancies and eccentricities gave constant annoyance to the Disciples, who overlooked them on account of his power as a revivalist. They would often say: "Oh well it is Rigdon. It is one of Rigdon's oddities." His imagination and love of the marvelous lead him constantly into exaggerations, that often were absolute falsehoods. Those who watched him closely were soon convinced that he lacked logical mental power and moral stamina, and was unreliable in his statements and wanting in moral principle. He was a vain and showy pulpit orator but never was a trusted preacher among the Disciples.

    We propose now to show that Rigdon knew     		of the appearance of the Book of Mormon before it appeared, and knew of and described its contents. Adamson Bentley Rigdon's brother-in-law and one of the most reliable men that Ohio has ever known, declares in the Millennial Harbinger of 1844, page 39: "I know that Sidney Rigdon told me as much as two years before the Mormon Book made its appearance, or had been heard of by me, that there was a book coming out, the manuscript of which was engraved on gold plates." Alexander Campbell whose word not even sectarian hatred ever dared to impeach, clinches the matter by adding his testimony:

    "The conversation alluded to in brother Bentley's letter was in my presence as well as his. My recollection of it led me, some two or three years ago, to interrogate brother Bentley concerning his recollections of it. They accord with mine in every particular, except in regard to the year in which it occurred. He placed it in the summer of 1827. I placed it in the summer of 1826. Rigdon at the time observed that on the plates dug up in New York there was an account, not only of the aborigines of this continent, but it was also stated that the Christian religion had been preached on this continent, during the first century just as we were then preaching it on the Western Reserve."

    That clinches the matter.

    We will now introduce Darwin Atwater of Mantua, who testifies:
    "Sidney Rigdon preached for us when the Mormon defection came on us, and notwithstanding his extraordinary wild freaks, he was held in high repute by many. For a few months before his pretended conversion to Mormonism, it was noted that his wild, extravagant propensities had been more marked. That he knew beforehand of the coming of the Book of Mormon is to me certain, from what he said during the first of his visits at my father's some years before (in 1826). He gave a wonderful description of the mounds and other antiquities found in some parts of America, and said that they must have been made by the aborigines. He said there was a book to be published containing an account of those things. He spoke of them in his eloquent, enthusiastic style, as being a thing most extraordinary. Though a youth I took him to task for expending so much enthusiasm on such a subject, instead of things of the gospel. In all my intercourse with him afterwards he never spoke of antiquities, or of the wonderful book that should give account of them, till the Book of Mormon was really published. He must have thought I was not the man to reveal to."

    That is true. Darwin Atwater was not, Parley P. Pratt was. He was the right man for Rigdon's schemes.

    Rigdon made a convert of Pratt then teaching school in Lorain county Ohio. Pratt began to preach for the Disciples. Rigdon let him into his scheme and Pratt entered heartily into it. We will now prove that Rigdon was away from home, engaged in getting out his manuscript, that he told his wife would be a great thing some day. Zebulon Rudolph, Mrs. Garfield's father testifies:

    "During the winter previous to the appearance of the Book of Mormon, Rigdon was in the habit of spending weeks away from home, going no one knew whither. He often appeared preoccupied and he would indulge in dreamy visionary talks which puzzled those who listened. When the Book of Mormon appeared and Rigdon joined in the advocacy of the new religion the suspicion was at once aroused that he was one of the framers of the new doctrine, and that probably he was not ignorant of the authorship of the Book of Mormon."

    John Rudolph, brother to Z. Rudolph, says:
    For two years before the Book of Mormon appeared




    46                     THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                      

    Rigdon's sermons were full of declarations and prophecies that the age of miracles would be restored and more complete revelations than those in the Bible would be given. When the Book of Mormon appeared all who heard him were satisfied that he referred to it."

    Almon B. Green, well known in Northern Ohio, says:
    "In the Annual Meeting of the Mahoning Association held in Austintown in August, 1830, about two months before Sidney Rigdon's professed conversion to Mormonism, Rigdon preached Saturday afternoon. He had much to say about a full and complete restoration of the ancient gospel. He spoke in his glowing style of what the Disciples had accomplished but contended that we had not accomplished a complete restoration of Apostolic Christianity. He contended such restoration must include community of goods -- holding all in common stock, and a restoration of the spiritual gifts of the apostolic age. He promised that although we had not come up to the apostolic plan in full yet as we were improving God would soon give us a new and fuller revelation of his will. After the Book of Mormon had been read by many who heard Rigdon on that occasion they were perfectly satisfied that Rigdon knew all about that book when he preached that discourse. Rigdon's sermon was most thoroughly refuted by Bro. Campbell, which very much offended Rigdon."

    Scores of others who were present have made similar statements hundreds of times. Eri M. Dille testifies:
    "In the Autumn of 1830 Sidney Rigdon held a meeting in the Baptist meeting-house on Euclid Creek. I was sick and did not attend the meeting, but my father repeatedly remarked while it was in progress that he was afraid that Rigdon was about to leave the Disciples for he was continually telling of what marvelous things he had seen in the heavens and of wonderful things about to happen, and his talks indicated that he would leave the Disciples.

    We will now prove that Rigdon came in contact with Smith in 1827-28-29, while Smith was getting out the Book of Mormon, Pomeroy Tucker, a native of Palmyra, New York, an intimate acquaintance of Impostor Joe, who read much of the proofs of the Book of Mormon says:
    "A mysterious stranger now appears at Smith's and holds intercourse with the famed money digger. For a considerable time no intimation of the name or purpose of this stranger transpired to the public, not even to Smith's nearest neighbors. It was observed by some that his visits were frequently repeated. The sequel of the intimacies of this stranger and the money digger will sufficiently appear hereafter. There was great consternation when the 118 pages of manuscript were stolen from Harris, for it seems to have been impossible, for some unaccountable reason, to retranslate the stolen portion. The reappearance of this mysterious stranger at Smith's at this juncture was again the subject of inquiry and conjecture by observers, from whom was withheld all explanations of his identity and purpose. When the Book of Mormon appeared, Rigdon was an early convert. Up to this time he had played his part in the background and his occasional visits to Smith's had been observed by the inhabitants as those of the mysterious stranger. It had been his policy to remain in concealment until all things were in readiness for blowing the trumpet of the new gospel. He now came to the front as the first regular preacher in Palmyra."

    Mrs. Eaton, wife of Horace Eaton D. D. for thirty-two years a resident of Palmyra says:
    "Early in the summer of 1827 a mysterious stranger seeks admission to Joe Smith's cabin. The conferences of the two are most private. This person whose coming immediately precedes a new departure in the faith was Sidney Rigdon a backslidden clergyman, then a Campbellite preacher in Mentor, Ohio.

    J. C. McCauley, in his history of Franklin County, Pennsylvania, states:
    "As a matter too well known to need argument that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and Sidney Rigdon were acquaintances for a considerable time before Mormonism was first heard of."

    Abel Chase, a near neighbor of the Smiths testifies:     		"I saw Rigdon at Smith's at different times with considerable intervals between them."

    This disproves the statement that Rigdon never was at Smith's but once and that after the book appeared. He was there several times and some visits must have been before the book appeared.

    Lorenzo Saunders, another near neighbor, testifies:

    "I saw Rigdon at Smith's several times, and the first visit was more than two years before the Book appeared."

    We have now brought Rigdon the second character in the origination of the Book of Mormon, in contact with the Impostor Joe Smith the third and last character in originating the fraud. This appearance could have been brought about in two ways. Parley Pratt the school teacher in Lorain county Ohio, that Rigdon converted, had been a peddler in central New York, and was acquainted with every noted character in it. When Rigdon let him into the secret of his scheme, he could have suggested to Rigdon that the seer and famous money seeker of Manchester, with his wonderful peep-stone, would be the very person to introduce his fraud in the world, as a revelation by miracle. Or it could have occurred in another way, The work of Smith and his gang in digging over a large scope of country in southern New York, and northern Pennsylvania, had been extensively commented on by the press. Rigdon could have learned of this wonderful seeker after treasure, and his wonderful peep-stone through the press, and it occurred to him that here was the one to give his stolen manuscript to the world as a new revelation, by miracle, translating pretended plates with his peep-stone. We are now ready for a sketch of Impostor Joe.

    Impostor Joe was born Dec. 23, 1805, in Sharon, Windsor county, Vermont. The minister employed by the Home Missionary Society, to labor in Vermont 1809-10-11-12-13, says, in his autobiography, that in 1812 a religious impostor created an excitement in the neighborhood of the Smith's. He taught that miraculous spiritual gifts could and should be enjoyed now, and claimed to be a prophet and then a Messiah, Christ in his second advent. Among the most active of his followers was Impostor Joe's father and mother, especially his mother. She prophesied, at the time, that Joe, then seven years old, would be a prophet, and give to the world a new religion. Joe was raised with this idea before him. All the family were taught and believed it. Joe's father used to speak of Joe as the "genus," as he termed it, of the family. This accounts for Joe's peculiar gravity when but a child, and as a youth. He was to be a prophet, and he must not act as other children and boys did. In 181[5] the Smiths moved to Palmyra N.Y. and in 1813 they squatted on an unoccupied piece of land, belonging to minors and lived there until they went to Ohio in 1830. Soon after coming to Palmyra, in a revival excitement, Joe showed




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    some interest in religious matters, and joined the class of probationers on probation and was soon left off "on suspicion" as the Yankee expressed a similar experience of his own. This is all there is of the long story that Impostor Joe wrote in 1843, twenty three years afterwards, of hid wonderful vision, of his going to the Methodist preacher with queries that would be in character, had the querist been a person of mature mind, well versed in the controversies of the age, but were utterly out of character in the mouth of an ignorant illiterate boy of fifteen, that was remarkable chiefly for his power of exaggeration and falsehood, and not for thought. The ideas that he said he had then, he never dreamed of until he learned them from Sidney Rigdon, years afterwards.

    In Sep. 1822, while digging a well for Willard Chase, Impostor Joe's father found a singularly shaped stone of cloudy quartz, strangely resembling a child's foot. Impostor Joe, who was loafing around was very much interested in the stone and finally stole it from Mr. Chase's children. The stone is the Urim and Thummim. Rigdon had stolen the "Book of Mormon." Now Impostor Joe steals the Urim and Thummim, with which he pretended to      		translate Rigdon's stolen manuscript. In Sept. 1823 Impostor Joe worked for W. H. Sabin, in Onandago Valley N.Y. Here he learned of the existence of the Spaulding manuscript then at Mr. Sabin's in the care of Martha Spaulding, Solomon Spaulding's daughter. During the year 1823-24-25-26-27, Impostor Joe was engaged in loafing around, strolling over the country, pretending to find water by witching for it with a witch-hazel rod, and pretending to find lost property, buried treasures, and minerals, by means of the same stone he had stolen from Mr. Chases's children. He had, a part of the time, with him, a gang of idle superstitious men, who dug holes over a large scope of country, in several counties in southern New York, and northern Pennsylvania. His knavish tricks, and frauds, had attracted to him great notoriety. His proceedings with a gang of dupes were published and commented on in several of the papers of New York and Pennsylvania. By this means Rigdon who was still looking around for some means to publish his stolen manuscript heard of the Seer of Manchester, and his wonderful peep-stone. It occurred to him that here was the means of getting his new revelation -- his "Golden Bible" before the world.



    MR. KELLEY'S FIFTH SPEECH.

    GENTLEMEN MODERATORS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: -- This evening I shall introduce first, some of the unmistakable corroborative evidences of the truth of the Book of Mormon as found contained in the reports and records of eminent travelers, explorers, scientists, historians and archaeologists, of the world.

    The Spaulding Romance no doubt will still be the means of entertaining you upon the part of the negative, as it seems to be a much easier task for him to spin out that yarn, than to attempt to answer the arguments of the affirmative. I will promise you one thing however, that is, that the Spaulding tale shall not go unanswered, if the arguments of the affirmative are. I will show you before the close of the discussion of this question, if the negative holds out the time agreed upon, that, that thing is so rotten and deceitful in conception, so false and malicious in publication, so absurd and ridiculous in belief, that you shall in your hearts feel ashamed that you ever entertained the thought, that there might be something in it. In the meantime carefully follow him; he is a good reader and has the story well rehearsed.     		But to the facts: In 1827 and 1828, when the greater part of the Book of Mormon was translated and put in manuscript, and in the year 1829, when it was put in the hands of the printer, very little was known as to the peoples, ancient races and civilization of the American continent. Taken in the light of what is known of these ancient peoples to-day with the later developments, there was comparatively nothing known at that time. There were then speculations and theories afloat as to the probabilities of an older people than the Indians in a few cases, brought out by the finding of a few relics of rude implements and ornaments together with some bones, &c., unaccounted for, and in a few instances speculation as to the cause of certain mounds of earth, whether such showed a higher state of civilization and was the remains of an older people than was then to be found among the savages of the forest. But there was no one who for a moment thought that the country had been inhabited by a people whose state of civilization and enlightenment had equaled, if not surpassed, that of Europe itself. In the arts and the sciences; in agriculture and



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    mining; In masonry and architecture; In painting arid sculpture; in engineering and mecnanical skill, in physics and medicine and in mathematics and astronomy. Not only this, but to that time no one speculated in all the domain of history, science or literature, that the continent had been successively inhabited by different peoples of a high state of civilization, who in turn had become extinct or dwindled into barbarism. It was also at that tvme a speculative belief that the continent was settled from the north, the people gradually making to the south when it was settled, and that probably some of the rude tribes which inhabited northeast Asia had at some period wandered across Behring's strait and gradually made their way southward upon the continent. It was also speculated that perhaps at some time some of the daring and hardy seamen of maritime Europe had discovered the country and formed small settlements which were afterwards destroyed by the more powerful nations, for the relics discovered up to 1829, were only in certain places, which would only indicate the landing of a ship's crew at the point; and again, that the Chinese had been cast upon its shores in some accidental manner and the Indians were descended from them; and later by some, that the "Ten tribes of Israel," that were carried away captive from Samaria by Shalmanesar, King of Assyria^ may have made their way to the continent and after a time fallen into idolatry and a state of savagery. But in turn every one of these theories have given way as the light of discovery and research has been thrown upon them, and now none find a support as demonstrable facts. At the time before referred to however, there was published to the world by a young man in the State of New York, a record claiming to give a positive and correct account of the peoples who had formerly inhabited this continent. The places from whence they came; the different times of their coming; the countries of first settlement; the varied states of civilization; their knowledge of the arts, sciences, agriculture, languages and literature. The manner of settlement, leading from south to north. The extent of settlement and the magnitude of the population. Giving^ a general account of their hundreds of cities and the glory and grandeur of them; of the industries, pursuits and character of the people, ana their final overthrow. And singular as it may seem, every statement with reference to these matters is in harmony with the facts which have been developed by the later researches of science. And upon nearly every one of its marvelous revelations as to these people, the result of the work of the archaeologist has been to furnish corroborative evidence of their truthfulness. Notwithstanding the fairness and candor in which the statements of this record have been published to the world, from the day it met the public eye, self-constituted leaders, theologians, and paltry politicians have taken it upon themselves to inform the public mind of their views of its teachings, always careful, however, to, if possible, keep the record itself in the background lest it reveal their perversions, until at this time, I think I may safely assert anfd keep within the bounds of truth, that there is not published in America a single Encyclopedia, Gazetter, Geography, History, History of Religious Debominations, Review of Expose which has spoken of the work and undertakes to give its statements, unless such publication was made by the friends of this record, that does not contain a false, garbled and perverted account of what it contains and teaches. I ask in the broad world of books everywhere for one. Why is this, my audience? If the book is a bad one will it not be sufficient to prove it so by giving its statements without perversion? Has it come to this? That men are compelled to resort to falsehood and trickery in order to overcome and out down an evil thing? In the apostles' time the injunction was "to be not overcome of evil, and overcome evil with good." But perhaps this with the other good things of the New Testament was confined to the apostles, and "to those upon whom they laid their hands." The truth is my friends that there is method in this madness. Somebodt is just afraid that if the light is turned on they may be discovered to be sitting in darkness. It may be said as of olden time: "Every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither comest to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God."

    It was stated by my opponent last night that Sidney Rigdon said in 1823, that a book would be published some day, "and be a big thing," "And," says he, "it is a big thing."

    Well it seems to me he makes Rigdon out a prophet, and a true one too, rather early in the career. According to this Rigdon was a prophet while he belonged to the Baptists, and after he was with the Disciples; and I make my guess right there that if he had not found out they were not in accordance with the Bible and left them he would be accounted such with them to this day; yes, and the grandest and ablest of them all; making no exception to Campbell, or Scott or Barton W. Stone. It is much like the case of Saul of Tarsus, who while he was a Pharisee was hail fellow well met. But when he became converted to the full light of the gospel, and afterwards preached good to the people, and told them how many bad things he did when a Pharisee, "They cried out, Away with such a fellow, he ought not to be permitted to live upon the earth."

    But to return to the "big thing." This work my friends will prove to be a big thing to this age yet: not to the destruction of Christianity, but to its full establishment. Why! do you not know that I can go side by side with the scientist and the skeptic


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    into the National Museum of our country and corroborate that work by the collections, from the rude arrow-head of the Indian to the cities of the clitf-dwellers which are there set out in full representation, simply by turning to the wonderful history in this book? And not only in these but in the fossil and other collections from the time you strike the bones of the mastodon till you come to those of the common domestic animals. It is truly an ensign set up bearing the most indisputable tidings that Jesus was the Son of God and that God is, who created the heavens and the earth and revealed himself to man upon this as upon the other continent; and this fact alone ought to be a sufficient answer to the question, "Of what use is the book?" Since it is brought to light in an age of the world when whole multitudes disbelieve in the existence of God, and millions whose fear toward him are taught by the precepts of men, believe in him only as a God of the past, but not now having any especial thing to do with the human family, the use of it is as apparent as any known thing in the universe. Opening this record (the Book of Mormon), I hurriedly cite some of its pages upon the civilization of the continent.

    First of the civilization which came out from Babel four thousand years ago. Page 620 of the record:

    "And the whole face of the land northward, (that Is from the straits, from what we term the Isthmus of Panama northward]), was covered with inhabitants; and they were exceeding industrious, and they did buy and sell and traffic one with another that they might get gain. And they did work in all manner of ore, and they did make gold, and silver, and iron, and brass, und all manner of metals; and they did dig It out of the earth: wherefore they did cast up mighty heaps of earth to get ore, of gold and of silver, and of iron and of copper. And they did work all manner of fine work. And they did have silks, and fine twined linen; and they did work all manner of cloth that they might clothe themselves. And they did make all manner of tools to till the earth, both to plough and to sow, and to reap and to hoe, and also to thrash. And they did make all manner of tools with which they did work their beasts. And they did make all manner of weapons of war. And they did work all manner of work of exceeding curious workmanship. And never could be a people more blest than they, and more prospered by the hand of the Lord."

    Then I refer you to page 517 for another description:

    "And in the space of sixty and two years," (that is from the time that Emer one of their kings began to reign), "they had become exceeding strong, insomuch that they become exceeding rich, having all manner of fruit, and of grain, and of silks, and of fine linen, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious things, and also all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of hheep. and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for ihr food of man; and they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants, and cnreloms, and cumoms, all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants, and cureloms, andcumoms."

    Citing you now to page 43, I refer you to the situation of the country as it appeared and was found to exist when the second people came to the continent Those who came out from the land of Jerusalem six hundred years before the birth of the Savior:

    "And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts In the forests of every kind, both the cow, and the ox, and the ass, and the horse and the goat, and the wild goat, and all manner of wild ani- mals which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper."

    On page 394 we have a further description, and also of the habits of the people:

    "And behold, there was all mannerof gold in both these lands, and of silver, and of precious ore of every kind; and there were also curious workmen, who did work all kinds of ore, and did refine it; and thus they did become rich. They did raise grain in abundance, both in the north and in the south. And they did flourish exceedingly both in the north and in the south. And they did multiply and wax exceeding strong in the land. And they did raise many flocks and herds, yen, many fallings. Behold, their women did toil and spin, and did make all manner of cloth, of fine twined linen and cloth of every kind."

    Leaving the description of the country and the people as set out in the book, I next refer you to their society and moral and religious instruction. The book shows that the people were taught by Jesus when he manifested himself to many upon this continent. Jesus said unto them page 456:

    "And as I have prayed among you, even so shall ye pray in my church, among my people who do repent, and are baptized in my name. Behold I am the light; I have set an example for you."

    "Pray In your families unto the Father, always in my name, that your wives and children may be blessed. And behold, ye shall meet together oft, and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ve shall meet together, but suffer them that they irm. come unto you, and forbid them not; but ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft, ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name; therefore hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that 1 have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed; and ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye may feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; arid whosoever breaketh this 'commandment, suffereth himself to be led into temptation."

    I might cite its pages to show you with regard to the hundreds of cities that it refers to, and magnificent ones too, located upon different parts of the continent; and especially upon the part of the continent known as Central America, and of which I shall refer hereafter; and also that part of the continent known now as Peru and Bolivia. But will proceed at the present upon another line.

    Having given you a glance into the his- tory as published in the years 1829 and 1830, I will briefly enumerate some of the prominent things mentioned in the work which have since been verified, and then intro- duce the evidences from Archaeologists.

    1. The book states that three civilizations have existed, flourished and decayed, upon parts of the continent, and one on nearly every part.

    2. One of these, first settled north of the Isthmus, or "narrow neck of land " as described by them, and inhabited first what is now called Central America, and afterwards the more northern parts of the continent.

    3. The second settled on the east coast of South America and first inhabited that country occupying the territory that is now known as Peru and Bolivia, and from thence spread over the whole continent.


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    4. The third landed on or near the coast of what is now called Yucatan in Central America.

    5. The last two of these civilizations were cotemporaneous, and that they after a time united and were known as one people.

    6. That the habitation of each began about 590 years before the Christian Era, and the joint habitation ceased about four centuries after, except as to the estranged tribes.

    7. That the occupancy of the first or original inhabitants ceased at least a thousand years before these.

    8. That the last prophets understood the Egyptian language in part and wrote in a brief and phonetic system of their language.

    9. That they also wrote in other languages as did also the earliest of the peoples. That the civilization so far as to the occupancy of the country were in each in- stance from south to north originally.

    10. That they builded many great and fine cities in the northern parts of South America; also, on and near the narrow neck of land, and north in the country of Central America, wnere the cities were the finest, largest, and most numerous. They also builded farther north upon all parts of the continent.

    11. That the ancestry of the last two peo- ples was Israelitish, but not the lost "Ten Tribes."

    12. That there was early brought to the continent by the first people, the common domestic animals and many others. (Here I will also state that the fossil remains of many of these were not discovered or known to the world to have existed upon this continent till a very late date, some as late as the year 1860.)

    13. That many of their cities were walled with solid masonry and made immense fortresses and that they had engines of war, and the battle ax, the cimeter, the sword and many other kinds of instruments of war.

    14. That classes had fortified cities in the mountains far up, so much so that it was impossible to dislodge them, and they retired and lived there, except to sally forth and prey upon the people in the land or the agricultural portions.

    15. That the structure and manner of building of their temples was upon a grand and magnificent plan and they were decorated with much expense and many curious and unique ornaments.

    16. The enlightened and civilized part of the people were peaceably inclined and not warlike, and highly cultivated in morals and religion. This is the history as given in the Book of Mormon.

    I will now turn to my evidences with regard to this, as ascertained and published by explorers since the publication of the Book of Mormon, citing you the first volume of John L. Stephen's explorations in Central America, Chiapas and Yucatan, page 131. Mr. Stephens here sets forth the first reference made to the distinguished city of Copan, as being made by Francisco de Fuentes in 1700; but he only mentions it casually, and in his description he represented it as containing figures of men likewise represented in Spanish habits, with hose, and ruffle around the neck, sword, cap and short cloak. But that history has never been published in the English language. And little known of it in any part of the world, and it contained no true or full description of this ancient city.

    "From this time," says the author, "there is no account of these ruins until the visit of Col. Galindo in 1836, before referred to, who examined them under a commission from the Central American Government, and whose communications on the subject were publoshed in the proceedings ot the Royal Geographical Society of Paris, and in the Literary Gazette of London." This was in the year 1834.

    I might remark here that there is in the books reference made to, a Spanish gentleman, and also an explorer, who examined some of these ruins, and left his manuscript in the hands of the government, and which was published in London in the year 1822. But the publication in English of that manuscript was confined to such narrow limits that at the time Stephens wrote this work, (1841), he had never himself seen the work, and such a journal as the London Literary Gazette had never heard of it in 1834. Mr. Stephens continues with reference to the first published account by Col. Galindo in 1834, as follows:

    "Not being an artist his account Is necessarily unsatisfactory and imperfect, but it is not exaggerated. Indeed it falls short of the marvelous account given by Fuentes one hundred and thirty five years before, and makes no mention of the movable stone hammock, with the sitting figures which were our great inducement to visit the ruins. No plans or drawings have ever been published, nor anything that can five e^en an idea of that valley of romance and wonder, where as has been remarked, the genii who attended on King Solomon seem to have been the artists."

    I cite you next to the account on page 142 of the same work, where the author in describing some of the sculptured art of this ancient people says:

    "Between the two principal personages is a remarkable cartouche, containing two hieroglyphics well preserved, which reminded us strongly of the Egypdnn method of giving the names of the kings or heroes in whose honor monuments were erected. The headdresses are remarkable for their curious and complicated form; the figures have all breastplates and one of the two principal characters holds in his hand an Instrument, which may, perhaps, be considered a scepter; each of the others holds an object which can only be a subject for speculation and conjecture. It may be a weapon of war, and if so, it is the only thing of the kind found represented In Copan. In other countries, battle-scenes, warriors, and weapons of war are nmong the most prominent subjects of sculpture; and from the entire absence of them here there is no reason to believe that ihe people were not warlike, but peaceable ane easily subdued."

    Do not forget the fact in the examination that the only account pretended to have been given prior to 1834 of this city, that of Fuentes in 1700. represented these relics as adorned in Spanish dress and costume, and which would have really misled a reader of the true character of the ruins.

    On page 155 of the same work we have another concise description of their sculp- ture:

    "The monument, unhappily, Is fallen and broken. In sculpture it is the same with the beautiful half-buried monument before given, and I repeat It, In equal to the best remains of Egyptian


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    art The fallen part was completely bound to the earth by vines and creepers, and before it could be drawn it was necessary to unlace them, and te ar the fibres out of the crevices. The paint is very perfect, and has preserved the stone, which makes it more to be regretted that it is broken. The altar is buried with the top barely visible, which, by examination we made out to represent the back of a tortoise."

    Before Mr. Stephens visited Central America and in a manner he was under the auspices of the government of the United States he had visited all of the distinguished countries of the Eastern continent, and examined their cities, and had written or given partial accounts of them. He was a man well calculated to look closely into these cities of Ancient America and give a reliable account and description of them.

    I next refer you to page 310 of his second volume. In his description of the temple of Palenque another ruin city of Central America he says:

    "It stands on an artificial elevation of an oblong form, forty feet high, three hundred and ten feet in front and rear, and two hundred and sixty feet on each side. This elevation was formerly faced with stone, which has been thrown down by the growth of trees, and its form is hardly distinguishable. The building stands with its face to the east, and measures two hundred and twenty-eight feet front by one hundred and eighty feet deep. Its height is not more than twenty five feet, and all around it had a broad projecting cornice of stone. The front contained fourteen doorways, about nine feet wide each, and the intervening piers are between six and seven feet wide. On the left (in approaching the palace), eight of the piers have fallen down, as has also the corner on the right, and the terrace underneath is cumbered with the ruins. But six piers remain entire, and the rest of the front is open. The building was constructed of stone, with a mortar of lime and sand, and the whole front was covered with stucco and painted. The piers were ornamented with spirited figures in bas-relief."

    On page 346 we have this further description:

    "The principal subject of this tablet," that is one of the sculptured figures that was found there, called 'the tablet of the cross,'-- "is the cross. It is [surmounted] with a strange bird, and loaded with indescribable ornaments. The two figures are evidently those of important personages. They are well drawn and in symmetry of proportion are perhaps equal to many thai are carved on the walls of the ruined temples in Egypt. Their costume is in a style different from any heretofore given, and the folds would seem to indicate that they were of a soft and pliable texture like cotton. Both are looking toward the cross, and one seems in the act of making an offering, perhaps of a child; all speculations on the subject are of course entitled to little regard, but perhaps it would not be wrong to ascribe to these personages a sacerdotal character. The hieroglyphics doubtless explain all. Near them are other hieroglyphics, which reminded us of the Egyptian mode for the recording the name, history, office or character of the persons represented. This tablet of the cross has given rise to more learned speculations than perhaps any others found at Palenque."

    On page 356 we have this statement of the author in the conclusion of his description of the fallen city:

    "Here were the remains of a cultivated, polished, and peculiar people, who had passed through all the stages incident to the rise and tall of nations; reached their golden age, and perished entirely unknown."

    I refer you next to the late work of Mr. John T. Short, entitled, The North Americans of Antiquity. On page 387, he says of Palenque:

    "The accompanying cut shows Waldeck's drawing (employed by Mr. Bancroft). Four hundred yards south of the palace stands the ruins of a pyramid and temple, which at the time of Dupaix's and of Waideck's visits were in a good state of preservation, but quite dilapidated when seen by Charny. The temple faces the east, and on the western wall of its inner apartment, itself facing the eastern light, is found, (or rather was. for it has now entirely disappeared), the most beautiful specimen of stucco relief in America. Mr. Waldeck, with the critical insight of an experienced artist declares it 'worthy to be compared to the most beautiful works of the age of Augustus.' He therefore named the temple Beau Relief. The above cut is a reduction from Waldeck's drawing used in Mr. Bancroft's work, and is very accurate. However, the peculiar beauty of Waldeck's drawing is such that it must be seen in order to be fully appreciated. It is scarcely necessary for us to call the reader's attention to the details of this picture, in which correctness of design and greceful outlines predominate to such an extent that we may safely pronounce the beautiful youth who sits enthroned on his elaborate and artistic throne, the American Apollo. In the or ginal drawing the grace of the arms and wrists is truly mHtchless, and the muscles are displayed in the most perfect manner."

    I hope the audience will not overlook the fact of the high order of art here set out. This is the latest work on American antiquities, bearing the date of 1882. Fifty three years after the Book of Mormon was in the publisher's hands, and yet every line of these grand descriptions are in perfect keeping with the high attainments of the people set out in that book most full and complete.

    On page 392 of the same works he says:

    "The stuccoed roofs and piers of both the temples Cross and Sun may be truly pronounced works of art of a high order. On the former Stephens observed busts and heads approaching the Greek models in symmetry of contour and perfectness of proportion. Mr. Waldeck has preserved in his magnificent drawings some of these figures, which are certainly sufficient to prove beyond coniroversy that the ancient Palenqueans were a cultivated and artistic people. In passing to Uxmal the transition is from delineations of the human figure, to the elegant and superabundant exterior ornamentation of edifices, and from stucco to sione as the material employed. The human figure, however, when it is represented, is in statuary of a high order,

    The elegant square panels of grecqnes and frets which compose the cornice of the Casa del Gobernador delineated in the works of Stephens, Baldwin and Bancrott, are a marvel of beauty which must excite the admiration of the most indifferent studeut of the subject."

    (Time expired).


     

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    52                     THE   BRADEN   AND   KELLEY   DEBATE.                      


    MR. BRADEN'S FIFTH SPEECH.
    GENTLEMEN MODERATORS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: - A stock argument of Mormons in proof that the inspiration of Impostor Joe, and that the Book of Mormon is true and a revelation, is stated: "The Book of Mormon [is] based on the idea that the aborigines of America were Israelites. Such an idea was not thought of or advocated until years after the Book of Mormon appeared. Some years after its appearance, scientific research demonstrated the truth of the basic idea of the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was an unlearned man. He could have obtained such an idea by revelation, and in that way alone." Young men who were as great readers as Joseph Smith was, have originated as startling ideas without inspiration. But we will now utterly explode this impudent falsehood. I have here two books. One is "The Wonders of Nature and Providence," written by Josiah Priest, and copyrighted by him June 2d, 1824, in the office of R. R. Lansing, Clerk of the District of Northern New York, and printed in Rochester in 1824. The other is the "Book of Mormon," copyrighted by Joseph Smith in the office of the same R. R. Lansing, Clerk of the same district, June 10, 1829, printed in Palmyra, twenty miles from Rochester in 1830.

    On the 297th page of "The Wonders of Nature and Providence," begins an article by Mr. Priest, the author, in which he argues at great length that the Indians are descendants of the Israelites. Not only so, but he quotes from Clavigero a Catholic Missionary, who advocated the same ideas in the seventeenth century. From Wm. Penn, who advocated this theory in 1774.. From a sermon of Dr. Jarvis preached before the American Historical Society in 1811, Jarvis quotes some books of Sewall, Willard and several New England historians. Priest quotes further from Menasses Ben Israel, from Dr. Boudinot, from Dr. Edwards, from Charlevoix, Du Pratz's History of Louisiana, from Lock and Escaruotus, Dr. Williams, Governor Hutchison, Dr. Beatty McKenzie, Maranez, Col Smith's History of New Jersey, and many others. Priest quotes in all from over forty writers, of whom twenty were Americans, who advocated the idea that the aborigines of America were Israelites. Most of these lived and wrote before Smith was born. He proves that it was the almost universal opinion of the ministers of New England and the Middle States. That it had been from the time of Elliott until Priest's own day. Not only is this true, but Priest, in his argument, quotes nearly all of the passages of scripture quoted by Mormons to prove the theory. It was from Priest's book that Rigdon and the Pratt stole their arguments.     		We show then that a book copyrighted in the same office as the Book of Mormon, published within twenty miles of Smith, circulated all over New York, Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio, years before the Book of Mormon appeared, advocated the idea upon which it is based and urged the same, arguments in favor of the theory that Mormons use. That ends all claim that Joe Smith must have obtained the idea by revelation. It shows that not only did Rigdon steal the book, but Mormons stole their arguments from Priest.

    We will now take up my opponent's long array of prophecies. I might let them pass untouched, for he did not make an application of them, to the aborigines of America, that was worthy of notice. There was published in London, a few years ago a work by a Mohammedan quoting and applying most of the same prophecies to the Ishmaelites to the Arabs and to the Koran. I have before me an argument applying the same prophecies to the Anglo-Saxon race. The stick of Ephraim is England, of Judah, America. There is an organization with many societies that publishes a paper advocating this idea. Scores of publications have been published and they make a much better argument than Mr. Kelley has made. This shows the absurdity of such farfetched perversions of the poetic language of prophecy. If we admit that the prophecies extend beyond Palestine, I defy my opponent to quote one prophecy that is not met by the dispersion of Israelites over the old continent. Israelites were scattered into Spain, Italy and the islands of the Mediterranean, into Morocco, Congo in west Africa, and over northern Africa into Egypt and Ethiopia. Also into China, India and over central and southern and western Asia. I defy my opponent to name one prophecy that extends beyond these countries into America. Now here is a fair challenge and test. Until he meets this his prophecies are worthless. Isaiah XVI--8 refers to the dispersion of Moab, has not the least reference to Israel. Jeremiah XX-XXI refers to dispersion in the Assyrian Empire. Has no reference to America. So of every quotation from Jeremiah

    Isaiah xi--11. The 16 verse reads: "There shall be a highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria like it was to Israel in the day he came up out of Egypt." This shows that it refers to Israelites in the Assyrian Empire, and has no reference to America. We now come to the pet passage of Mormonism. Ezek. xxxvii -- the sticks of Ephraim and Judah. The Book of Mormon declares in several places the Nephites were Manassehites,




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    and the people of Zarahemla Judahites. The stick of Ephraim can have no reference to them. Stick does not mean a book. The stick of Judah is not the Bible. The stick of Ephraim is not a book. Numbers, xvii. Aaron is told to take twelve rods or sticks and write on them just as Ezekiel is told to take two sticks and write on them. Aaron wrote the name of a tribe on a stick, writing twelve names, using twelve sticks. Ezekiel wrote the name of a tribe or a nation on a stick -- for Judah respresented the southern kingdom and Ephraim the northern kingdom -- using two sticks. Gen. xlix, the rod, staff, stick or scepter of Judah is mentioned. We read of the rod, staff or stick of Aaron that budded, that Moses used. Then stick is a symbol of power. What the prophet's act meant was that the northern kingdom or Ephraim, and the southern kingdom or Judah should be united again, after the captivity, as they were before the rebellion of Jereboam. In verse 23 the prophet declares these Israelites were scattered in captivity for sin. Lehi and Nephi were taken by the Lord from Jerusalem because they were so good to save them. The prophecy cannot refer to the Nephites. Verses 26-27 declares the Lord will bring Israel or Judah from their enemies' lands, nor from America, into their own land, and leave none in their enemies' lands. We might examine every passage and show that thry have no reference to America -- can have none. That the context confines the prophecy to Asia, North Africa, and that it refers to the return, under Ezra and Nehemiah, but this is sufficient. Isaiah xxix -- In the first verse the prophecy is against the city where David dwelt, Jerusalem. In the seventh verse the prophecy is confined to Jerusalem. It has no reference to America. It speaks of the ignorance of the people of Judah, their failure to understand the prophets. It has not a ghost of reference to America. We have shown that the prophecies need not extend beyond the old world. We defy our opponents to name one that need extend beyond the old world. We have proved by the context that in every instance they refer to the old world and usually to the immediate neighborhood of Palestine.

    We are now ready for our opponent's Holy Ghost speech, a speech that the audience will hear a dozen times before we are done. My opponent charges the Disciples with denying the power of godliness, the power of God, the power of the Spirit of God. The Bible declares that God has accomplished all things by his Spirit abd by his word. In these is all power that God has exerted in the Universe. There are four different exercises of power by the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Bible. I. The miraculous powerm, as seen in inspiration, and in spiritual gifts, including all miraculous power mentioned in the Bible. This the world, sinners, cannot receive. John XIV: 16-17. "The Father will give you (the apostles) the Comforter, whom the world can not receive." This is not converting     		or sanctifying power, for the sinner can not receive it to convert him. It is not sanctifying power, for it was to the apostles alone, and was to endow them with miraculous power for their mission, and not to sanctify them. It did not descend on the apostles at Pentecost, nor was it imparted to the Samaritans nor to John's disciples at Ephesus to convert them, for all these had been converted before. II. Converting power. Romans II:16: "The Gospel is the power of God unto slavation to all who believe." John IV:36. "The words I speak unto you, they are spirit and life." Peter 1:5: "We are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." III. Indwelling power, Gal. IV:6: "Because ye are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts." Because by the converting power, the Gospel, you have been made sons. God has sent the indwelling power into your hearts. Eph I:13: "Having believed in Christ you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise that is the earnest of your inheritance." John XIV:25 "Jesus said 'If a man love me he will keep my words and my Father will love him and we will come unto him and make our abode with him.'" Eph. III:15-17, "I pray that you be strengthened with might in the inner man that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith." I John II:24. "If that which you have heard from the beginning abide in you, you shall continue in the Son and the Father." John III:23-24, "This id the commandment of God, that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, and he that keepeth his commandments, dwelleth in God, and God in him." IV:15-16: "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God! God is love. He that dwelleth in love, dwelleth in God, and God in him." Col. III:16. "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom."

    IV. Resurrecting power. Romans viii - "If the Spirit of him that raised up Christ from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead, shall also quicken your mortal bodies, by the Spirit of Christ that dwells in you." When? 1 Thess, 14-15-16: "If we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so those also who sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, and with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." So also 1 Cor. xv. 51-52. We have proved that there are four manifestations of power of the Holy Spirit. I. The miraculous. This is not converting power, for the sinner cannot receive it to convert him. The apostles and others who received it were already converted. II. Converting power. This is the Gospel, the word of God, which begets, makes alive, converts. III. Indwelling power. This is not moraculous power. It is by and through faith, belief, by the word




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    of God. God and this Spirit dwells in us, when his word dwells in us, and we live it out in life. IV. Resurrecting power at the general judgment. My opponent, with the Book of Mormon and all of Joe Smith's revelations, and with the inspiration of a Mormon Elder, and with all his miraculous illumination, is so grossly ignorant as to quote and jumble together passages in which these four manifestations are mentioned, and is as ignorant as a dead man of these palpable distinctions. The miraculous power has ceased. The resurrecting power is to come. The converting and indwelling power that are exerted through the truth remain and we will believe in them as God's word teaches, and not as Mormon ignorance and delusion teach. That is the difference between us. The miraculous power was not a moral influence. It was given to wicked men, and even to animals, to Baalam's ass. It was given regardless of character. It made men no wiser or better, when it had passed away from them, as the cases of Baalam, his ass, Saul, Jonah and Caiaphas show. It converted no one, unless it be Baalam's ass, and if Mormons belong to that class, they may be converted by it, as the other ass was; but men never were converted by it.

    We will now take up the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit. We showed that there is one baptism in the church, in water, into the name of Father, Son and Spirit, it is a memorial and symbolical institution. There can be no other baptism, and baptism in the Spirit which was a miracle, ceased. My opponent can not touch this. We said that Joel's promise was to all flesh. That Christ's was to believers alone. That Peter's was only to believers that God should call. That is just what the Bible says. We said an apostle had to lay hands on believers, before they could receive the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit. That is just what the VIII chapter of Acts declares. We said that this power never descended to a third person. He has not found a case. We said that there is a more excellent way than the exercise of the best of these miraculous powers. That is just what Paul says. I said that prophecying or speaking by inspiration, miraculous knowledge or revelations, speaking with tongues or miracles, signs, were to cease. That is just what Paul says. Kelley asks who believesit? All who believe the word of God believe it. I said that the partial was the inspiration, the revelation imparted by the inspiration, the revelation imparted by this miraculous power. It was but a fragment of the truth, only that could be uttered at a time. The whole, that which is perfect, is the complete word of God. So says common sense. So says the word of God. The word is perfect, makes Christians perfect. I said that as one of the members of the comparison, the imperfect was a state of the church -- the state when these gifts, these fragmentary revelations were given; the other member is a state of the church, when the word of God is completed, and these gifts; these fragments     		of revelation do not exist. So say Paul and common sense. He quotes "ask." I inquire how? "Seek." I ask how? "Knock." I ask how? In acordance with God's law and word. If we ask for miraculous power, we ask contrary to God's law. "If any man lack wisdom let him ask." How? In accordance with God's word. If he asks for miraculous power, he asks contrary to God's law. "We will manifest ourselves to him." How? Not in miraculous power, dor that is contrary to God's word. "We will abide in him." How? In miraculous power? No, for that has ceased. "If two or three are gathered I will be in their midst." How? In miraculous power? No, for that has ceased. "Witness of Spirit?" "The Spirit witnesses." How? On miracles. No, for he cannot utter teaching in that way. Ib his word, the word of truth, the only way one intelligence can testify to another "Born of Spirit," How? By miraculous power? No. "He that believes is born of God." "Christian experience." Must it include miraculous power? No, for that has ceased. "Son of God will dwell in our hearts." How? By miracle? No, for it can not be done in that way. We love him because he loved us. By learning his love for us. "Holy Spirit in Christian." How? In miraculous power? No, for that has ceased. WEhen his word dwells in us richly.

    "By one Spirit are we baptized." Yes, in obedience to command of one Spirit, just we are begotten of Christ in obeying his word. My opponent does not know enough to know that there is a difference between being baptized in the Spirit, and being baptized in obedience to the command of the Spirit. No, I do not confound the four powers of the Spirit as he does. I separate them as the word of God does, and believe that the miraculous power has ceased as the word of God teaches. I remove God from men and religion now, he says. No. I believe that as God is not in the work of bringing animals and plants into being by creation now, but in the operation of natural law, so he is not in men and religion now, in miracle, but in the operation of his word. I no more remove God from religion than I remove him from nature. I believe he is present in a higher sense, and in a higher way. That miracle in each case was only preparatory to this higher operation of divine power. My opponent assumes that the only power of God in both cases must be miraculous.

    How are apostles and prophets and the Holy Spirit in the church now? Just as Christ is present in the church. He is not present in person on earth. He is in heaven. He is present in his word and law. Thw apostles are present in their words. The Holy Spirit in his word. He blunders over the illustration of the constitutional convention. The people were not in the convention in person, yet the constitution says: "We the people, ordain this constitution." How did they ordain? Through




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    their appointed delegates. God in person never spoke to men but three times. He speaks through his representatives. God organized the church, gave its constitution, the New Testament, through the apostles, just as the people ordained the constitution and government through their representatives. The apostles says "In Christ's stead -- God in us -- through us." They teach that they were God's representatives. His blundering in comparing apostles to trees is ridiculous. Miraculous power created the first trees, but miraculous power was no part of the things created. The apostles gave the constitution, the New Testament, and organized the church under it; but were no more a part of the church that they organized than delegates that framed our constitution are a part of the government they organized for us. Can my opponent understand that?

    We want to call our opponent's attention to a defect in his stock argument on Mark XVI. Let us read it:

    "Afterwards Jesus appeared unto the eleven as they (the eleven) sat at meat, and upbraided them (the eleven) with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they (the eleven) believed not. He said unto them (the eleven), 'Go ye (the eleven) into all the world, and preach, etc. He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be condemned. These signs shall follow them (the eleven again) who shall believe.' After the Lord had spoken unto them (the eleven), he was received up into heaven, and they (the eleven) went forth preaching the word, the Lord working with them (the eleven), confirming the word (of the eleven) with signs following."

    The language itself extends no farther than the eleven. They were the ones who were to preach. Those of them who believed and went forth and preached should have these signs. They believed, went forth and the signs followed their preaching. The promise does not necessarily or logically include a single human being except the eleven who were upbraided with unbelief, and who were to preach, and we